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Thread: So when to pull the plug? Blow it up? Or shoot, just rearrange the deck chairs?

  1. #1
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    So when to pull the plug? Blow it up? Or shoot, just rearrange the deck chairs?

    I think we're going to have to slog through May before we find out what the brain trust has up its sleeve for plan B. If they have a plan B

    Bring up perennial 4A allstar Pham to get his first annual owie at the major league level?

    Bring up Bader to play right and shift Piscotty to LF? Anyone see any reason to continue the Grichuk experiment much past May?

    Piscotty seems to be catching on. I know I had higher hopes for at least league average OBP from the first three batters in our lineup. Do we look a little better if they start clicking? (If our pitching doesn't completely suck. Which it mostly does right now.)

    Maybe Garcia can replace one of the infield positions. But does anyone really count on Gyorko to be an athletic everyday player?

    Will Moe apply the bite collar and trade Adams? I just don't understand the fascination with Adams unless they are trying to showcase him for a trade -- which is not working out so well at the moment.

    Who takes the rap for the team's return to woeful defense? We've been shitty since Oquendo started staying in Florida.

    Are they all cake eaters? Great spring. But the game moves a little faster once the games count.

    Did you laugh when you read the story in the Boast that they had called in Willie McGee to offer fielding tips to Adams? Willie ain't Rumpelstiltskin.

    Why has the team played decent defense for Michael Murphy's favorite shop lifter but no one else?

    Will we start hearing about returning Carpenter to leadoff because he can't bat any other spot in the order?

    Happy Easter if you celebrate it.
    Last edited by Judge Mental; 04-15-2017 at 09:11 PM. Reason: plan B
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    Nice post. Blow it up? No way. Organization is too used to winning. They will rearrange the deck chairs. Cards need a 3B who can hit, and with power in the 4 spot, or a 1B and move Carp back to third. Interesting idea that they move Carp back to lead off because he doesn't perform anywhere else. Carp, Fowler, Piscotty with Diaz at 5th? Two lefties to lead off, I know.

    What I do know is the Cards are completely out of sync. Everything that can go wrong is going wrong: hard hits are going right at people, dribblers are being thrown away by the defense. Starting pitching seems good enough to be a .500 team, but the bullpen? Ouch. This team is very difficult to watch.
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    I think if this team is slogging along into June with a winning % like they have now -- Matheny might finally be in jeopardy. At least that's my hope.

    Player wise --- I think the only 2 possibly in jeopardy are Peralta (since he is in his last contract year) and Wong (as I think his leash is rather short). I think Adams is likely here to stay this year, but hopefully someone ends this WTF experiment of him in LF.

    At the least, this team needs to be in total sell mode come this summers trade deadline --- whatever you can get value for, do it.

    In Memphis currently - Pham is currently hitting .316, potential Peralta replacement Patrick Wisdom is at .353 and Paul DeJong is at.333. Bader has struggled most of the early season, and after a 2-3 night yesterday is still only .219 (which makes him an all - star compared to Fowler).
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Indy CardsFan View Post
    I think if this team is slogging along into June with a winning % like they have now -- Matheny might finally be in jeopardy. At least that's my hope.

    Player wise --- I think the only 2 possibly in jeopardy are Peralta (since he is in his last contract year) and Wong (as I think his leash is rather short). I think Adams is likely here to stay this year, but hopefully someone ends this WTF experiment of him in LF.

    At the least, this team needs to be in total sell mode come this summers trade deadline --- whatever you can get value for, do it.

    In Memphis currently - Pham is currently hitting .316, potential Peralta replacement Patrick Wisdom is at .353 and Paul DeJong is at.333. Bader has struggled most of the early season, and after a 2-3 night yesterday is still only .219 (which makes him an all - star compared to Fowler).
    I don't know what it would take to put Mike on the hot seat. They held onto LaRooster through some pretty grim seasons.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    I don't know what it would take to put Mike on the hot seat. They held onto LaRooster through some pretty grim seasons.
    The "Leader of Men" seems incapable of embarrassment.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    I don't know what it would take to put Mike on the hot seat. They held onto LaRooster through some pretty grim seasons.
    No. 10 came in with a brand name and some history of success. He also saw to it that his buddy from Oakland came in and put together a team he thought he could win with.

    The current guy came in with no managing pedigree and frittered away a potential dynasty in just a few years. Ignorance is one thing; abject refusal to learn from one's mistakes is another. It has turned this franchise into an embarrassment.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by STJOMO View Post
    No. 10 came in with a brand name and some history of success. He also saw to it that his buddy from Oakland came in and put together a team he thought he could win with.

    The current guy came in with no managing pedigree and frittered away a potential dynasty in just a few years. Ignorance is one thing; abject refusal to learn from one's mistakes is another. It has turned this franchise into an embarrassment.
    I'll be listening to the BSPN announcers this evening closely. I want to hear if there are some sort of murmurs going on about the state of the team.

    I wonder will Forrest give us all the third finger and start Adams in LF tonight?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    I don't know what it would take to put Mike on the hot seat. They held onto LaRooster through some pretty grim seasons.
    TLR's worst season was his 2nd with the Cards...73-89 (.451) back in 1997. But after the rest of the bad 90's teams, that really probably didn't stand out.

    In total he had 16 seasons with the Cards and only 3 years were under .500 (including his 2nd / 4th seasons) -- with the 3rd being in 2007 when they were 78-84...but had won the WS the year before.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Indy CardsFan View Post
    TLR's worst season was his 2nd with the Cards...73-89 (.451) back in 1997. But after the rest of the bad 90's teams, that really probably didn't stand out.

    In total he had 16 seasons with the Cards and only 3 years were under .500 (including his 2nd / 4th seasons) -- with the 3rd being in 2007 when they were 78-84...but had won the WS the year before.
    Was that the year they challenged for the record losing to clubs that were less than .500? Seems like they did a few years in a row before 2011. And there was the drama with Rolen. And some late season folds. I count on John D. to remember the gory details.

    But hey. That was then. And I'm getting plenty of misery from this year's edition.
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    You know that your team is in very rough shape when Leake is your best starter, and your best/only offensive threat in the lineup is some guy that nobody's heard of and has just now made it to the majors at age 28.

    The team really blows, but I can't see them going into full rebuild mode as long as 3M+ fans keep coming out. They'll wait until their revenues are hit to make any real moves, and I would still bet on Matheny sticking around because he's the yes man which they like in their organization. I believe that a lot of the guys will at least come around to average or so and that there's still enough bang in the lineup to win enough games so they'll hover around the .500 mark, coming up short by a few games with the final tally. It wouldn't surprise me to see them trade Kelly and other prospects for someone they've had their eye on, likely a pitcher.

    Carpenter will probably move back to third soon where he's more comfortable and Adams will be your full time first baseman.
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    something has to give or we spend the next 10 years being the Cubs' b####

    no way 3mil fans come watch this crap. we saw last September that fans find better things to do.

    there is simply not enough talent right now in the system to compete with the Cubs. especially on offense.

    it's been a great 15 year run but a re-set is overdue

    it should have started the day after Heyward signed with the new Evil Empire
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    Was that the year they challenged for the record losing to clubs that were less than .500? Seems like they did a few years in a row before 2011. And there was the drama with Rolen. And some late season folds. I count on John D. to remember the gory details.

    But hey. That was then. And I'm getting plenty of misery from this year's edition.
    I believe 2003 was the year the Flubs and Dusty took the division.

    The names Fassero, Esteban Yan, and Pedro Borbon Jr. spring to mind.

    I attended a game vs. the Phillies where Thome hit the obligatory 2 homers. By the end, it was a beanball contest. Esteban Yan's control was so bad, he couldn't even hit the batter - much less find the plate
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    A deep run by the Blues (holds laughter) coupled with an historically bad April for the Cards could be the perfect storm to hit Detwitt where he lives.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by IITC View Post
    A deep run by the Blues (holds laughter) coupled with an historically bad April for the Cards could be the perfect storm to hit Detwitt where he lives.
    They now become the focus
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    It's time to get nuclear.
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    \_(ツ)_/
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by wonderdog View Post
    \_(ツ)_/
    How we doin?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by IITC View Post
    How we doin?
    I know. We have several guys on here who are experts at predicting what already happened.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by IITC View Post
    How we doin?
    Doggie Dew won't be back to answer.

    A bigger ass kisser cannot be found.

    (Unless you count Two Hole)
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by IITC View Post
    How we doin?
    Goold said in his chat today that we are "resolutely mediocre."

    So at least we are resolute.
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    he also had this to say:


    [Q: Will the Cardinals have a winning home record in 2017? What is the issue playing in front of the home crowd last year?
    by Darrell 3:07 PM]

    DG: I don't know about the record. I don't think it's the crowd. I think it's the ballpark. The Cardinals don't play a brand of game that is accentuated by the ballpark, it is more aggravated by it.
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    What is their brand of game? Never score and be horrible at preventing runs?
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  23. #23
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    Blame the ballpark. Innovative
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    Blame the ballpark. Innovative
    Goold is blaming management for not building a team suited to the park. Elsewhere in the chat:
    Q: Our home park is set up for whiteyball! Why don't we set the team up as such?

    DG: that is an excellent question. It is one that I continue to ask because it should not be dismissed.
    The Boast is ragging on the team in a way I have not seen in the internet era; like in the headline on last nights game:
    Dull Cardinals lose to Dodgers in slow motion.
    The Cardinals got a short burst of offense, a shorter bench before the game and the shortest start of the season from Michael Wacha.

    It seems only the list of their issues gets longer.

    By blending inefficient pitching with pedestrian offense, the Cardinals had one of their most irrepressibly dull games in years and lost 9-4 to the Dodgers. An early three-run lead drowned in the sludge rolling off a team too thin on offense and occasionally thick on defense to overcome anything without superior pitching. When they don’t get that, they haven’t had much. A crowd of 38,466 dispersed by the time Yadier Molina’s solo home run landed in the eighth inning, and far more were gone when the interminable 3-hour, 55-minute game ended as the lengthiest nine-inning meander in Busch Stadium III history.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    he also had this to say:


    [Q: Will the Cardinals have a winning home record in 2017? What is the issue playing in front of the home crowd last year?
    by Darrell 3:07 PM]

    DG: I don't know about the record. I don't think it's the crowd. I think it's the ballpark. The Cardinals don't play a brand of game that is accentuated by the ballpark, it is more aggravated by it.
    It's the bases. They're too far apart when the Cards are on them and too close together when the opponents are.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by IITC View Post
    It's the bases. They're too far apart when the Cards are on them and too close together when the opponents are.
    That's the way it feels when your team is slow and stupid.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Judge Mental View Post
    That's the way it feels when your team is slow and stupid.
    They keep doing the same thing, expecting different results.

    Peralta makes me projectile vomit. So does Broxton. Hated the Fowler signing (why did we need him, we have a ton of OFs in the system). Ambivalent about the Cecil signing @ the time but now think it is (along with Fowler) a huge albatross.

    This team is stupid & lazy. I hate watching them, & I think I can find better ways to spend those 3 hours. I haven't felt this disgusted since the early 90s.

    So to answer - yes, please, blow it up. It would be a more interesting & inspired team to watch & root for. But since we are IN SECOND PLACE (more of an indictment as to how bad everyone else in our division is playing than an any endorsement of how 'good' we are) nothing will happen.

    And the sheeple keep on coming.
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  28. #28
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Sonicblast12 View Post
    What is their brand of game? Never score and be horrible at preventing runs?
    The Cardinal Way
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    The Cardinal Way
    The talent is there (except in the pen). Mike's just not capitalizing on it.

    Unless they fire the manager, I may owe you a Benjamin. And that would make me sad.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    The talent is there (except in the pen). Mike's just not capitalizing on it.

    Unless they fire the manager, I may owe you a Benjamin. And that would make me sad.
    I don't believe the talent is there.

    This team is incapable of playing plus defense.

    To do so, they'd need to commit to Pham everyday in RIGHT FIELD and Sierra in CF.

    And, they would STILL need a shortstop with adequate range.
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    We have no all stars on this team except Molina.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by barnbird View Post
    We have no all stars on this team except Molina.
    He's no longer an All-Star
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    He's no longer an All-Star
    He will represent the Cardinals in the ASG but Posey and Contresas probably at this time are the best two.
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    FanGraphs still has their playoff odds at 43%, which is 6th in the NL. Of course, only 5 teams make the playoffs, so finishing 6th means no playoffs and the worst possible draft slot among non-playoff teams. We know Mo won't sell off meaningful parts, certainly not if the Cardinals are within shouting distance of a wildcard spot. The best we can probably hope for is that he doesn't push in and trade off a couple more young players for another also ran middle reliever.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by TommyHerr28 View Post
    FanGraphs still has their playoff odds at 43%, which is 6th in the NL. Of course, only 5 teams make the playoffs, so finishing 6th means no playoffs and the worst possible draft slot among non-playoff teams. We know Mo won't sell off meaningful parts, certainly not if the Cardinals are within shouting distance of a wildcard spot. The best we can probably hope for is that he doesn't push in and trade off a couple more young players for another also ran middle reliever.
    I think if the Cardinals were mathematically eliminated 2 months from today, Moe might sell off some players, but probably more for salary relief than to acquire young talent. Otherwise, they will continue status quo and delude for the best!
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  36. #36
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    I don't believe the talent is there.

    This team is incapable of playing plus defense.

    To do so, they'd need to commit to Pham everyday in RIGHT FIELD and Sierra in CF.

    And, they would STILL need a shortstop with adequate range.
    Their defense sucks.

    LF Fowler (only because I think they won't trade him, but if they could/would... Bader?)
    CF Sierra
    RF Pham (for as long as he is hot, in any case)
    3B Gyorko
    SS Diaz (Ozzie needs to spend even more time with him)
    2B Wong
    1B Piscotty
    C Molina

    JMartinez (OF)
    Garcia (SS/2B/3B)
    Fryer (C)
    DeJong (3B/2B)

    Trade: Carpenter, Lynn, Cecil (to an AL team, be still my heart)
    DFA: Peralta
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by barnbird View Post
    We have no all stars on this team except Molina.

    I definitely see signs of aging with him. I hope we don't end up regretting his new contract. As for being an All Star... I'd say not unless it's out of respect for his past. Our All Star(s) are likely to come in the form of pitchers.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by ilcardsfan View Post
    I think if the Cardinals were mathematically eliminated 2 months from today, Moe might sell off some players, but probably more for salary relief than to acquire young talent. Otherwise, they will continue status quo and delude for the best!

    I have 'zero' confidence that Moe has any idea how to turn older/experienced players into younger, promising players.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    As for being an All Star... I'd say not unless it's out of respect for his past. Our All Star(s) are likely to come in the form of pitchers.
    I'm sure Posey will be the starting catcher.....but after him who would you pick over Yadi?

    Realmuto?
    Weiters?
    Grandal?

    I haven't watched any non-Cards games this year but none of these guys blow me away.
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  40. #40
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    Who's got the TNT?
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    I might have to watch a complete game the next time one is showing on the MLB network. I'm curious if the team is as bad as some think it is.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Wacha Wacha View Post
    I might have to watch a complete game the next time one is showing on the MLB network. I'm curious if the team is as bad as some think it is.
    This is the worst team I've watched since 2007. And I'd take the '07 team because they had Pujols who just might put the team on his back and win three in a row for them.
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  43. #43
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    The record doesn't do this team justice as to just how bad they are.

    This is a team that deserves to lose 90 games.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Indy CardsFan View Post
    The record doesn't do this team justice as to just how bad they are.

    This is a team that deserves to lose 90 games.
    If an opponent is able to mount any sort of challenge, the Cardinals seem anxious to give it away.
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    We can't hold a lead and we can't catch the ball.

    Not a good combo.
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    https://www.101sports.com/2017/06/05...ied-cardinals/
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    We can't hold a lead and we can't catch the ball.

    Not a good combo.
    Don't forget that they can't hit a ball consistently or with any authority. Nor can they run the bases.

    They have a couple of decent starting pitchers and a reliable reliever or two. But there are pretty much 20 guys on this roster that could be shot into the sun and the team wouldn't be much worse for it.
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    interesting point from jmolinas link at #46:

    This team’s offense and starting pitching are almost EXACTLY at the Cardinals 2015 levels. You know, the season where they won 100 games. So it’s the “little things” that are killing this team. And the “little things” fall under the coaching staff’s responsibility…and the staff is lead by the manager. Poor bullpen performance (and management), shoddy defense and downright child-like base running are dragging the team down.
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    This starting rotation should result in 100 wins from an adequate roster.

    I expect Wacha to do his usual fade (already started), but I would imagine Luke Weaver will fill that gap.
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