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Thread: 2017 Minor League Thread

  1. #1
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    2017 Minor League Thread

    Let's use this thread to keep up to date on the farm system.
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    Perhaps this has been previously reported & I missed it, but it looks like the Cardinals have converted defensive whiz-kid Oscar Mercado to CF.

    Mercado was drafted as a light-hitting SS. To date, he has lived up to his scouting reports by being a defensive standout, stolen base threat & a weak hitter. He'll play the entire 2017 season at age 22 & is in AA Springfield.
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    Tommy Pham is going ape shit in AAA.

    So is local boy (Wildwood) Luke Voit, 22nd rd pick 2013, product of famed Lafayette HS and Mo State u.

    Tyler Lyons has 3.1 scoreless innings. Luke Weaver went to the 10 day DL with back soreness.
    Last edited by two-hole; 04-11-2017 at 12:24 PM.
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    Lots of reports on the Peoria staff being loaded in 2016, but the 2017 Springfield Cardinals staff is pretty stout too.

    Flaherty, Alcantara, Hudson & Gomber.

    I expect Junior Fernandez to join the rotation in AA at some point.
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    When perusing the minor league rosters, people often come across some pretty interesting names.

    The Cardinal have an 2B in Springfield named Dickie Joe Thon. He sounds like a dude who I want to drink beer with.
    Last edited by TCB 6-4-3; 04-11-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by TCB 6-4-3 View Post
    When perusing the monor league rosters, people often come across some pretty interesting names.

    The Cardinal have an 2B in Springfield named Dickie Joe Thon. He sounds like a dude who I want to drink beer with.
    Is it Dickie Thon's kid? He was a very good player before the beaning.

    Just checked: it is his boy. Glad to see this. The old man would have made maybe 10 all-star teams if he hadn't gotten hit.
    Last edited by 85cards; 04-11-2017 at 12:46 PM.
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    Luke Weaver has been put on the DL as well after pitching on,y a couple of innings in his first start.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by 85cards View Post
    Is it Dickie Thon's kid? He was a very good player before the beaning.

    Just checked: it is his boy. Glad to see this. The old man would have made maybe 10 all-star teams if he hadn't gotten hit.
    I'd never even heard of his dad, before my time...... Thanks for the background
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    Tell me about all those position players Moe has drafted that can hit.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    Tell me about all those position players Moe has drafted that can hit.
    Go away, grouchypants. This is a FUN thread.
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    If we ignore the facts long enough perhaps they will go away too?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    If we ignore the facts long enough perhaps they will go away too?
    What facts?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    Tell me about all those position players Moe has drafted that can hit.

    2H;
    What facts...?
    Were you just funnin' when you told John to go away?
    I knew it must've been something like that... I'm so darned bad at sighting sarcasm.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by TCB 6-4-3 View Post
    I'd never even heard of his dad, before my time...... Thanks for the background
    Just showing my age.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by 85cards View Post
    Just showing my age.
    During the last few drafts I've started to see the children of guys I watched growing up.

    Heck, Raul Mondesi Jr. is starting at 2B for the Royals . There's also more on the way with a couple on the MLB top 100 prospects list......Vlad Guerrero Jr (34) and Nick Gordon (48)
    Last edited by TCB 6-4-3; 04-11-2017 at 02:26 PM.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    2H;
    What facts...?
    Were you just funnin' when you told John to go away?
    I knew it must've been something like that... I'm so darned bad at sighting sarcasm.
    No, I honestly want JD to go away.

    I'm looking for specifics. It is not a fact that John Mozeliak has never drafted a player who can hit.

    I can't debate non-fact gross sweeping exaggerations. Bring me facts and we'll debate them. You might. JD won't; he'll just repeating "team control" and "pleased with the roster" and other Mozeliakisms he thinks he's using effectively.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    ...It is not a fact that John Mozeliak has never drafted a player who can hit.

    Maybe. I can't think of one. Can you? Help me out... Who's the best hitter he's drafted?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    Maybe. I can't think of one. Can you? Help me out... Who's the best hitter he's drafted?
    the best?

    Albert Pujols.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    the best?

    Albert Pujols.
    You think Mozeliak drafted Albert Pujols?

    Put down the Newcastle and step away from the keyboard - and put on the dunce cap you've so clearly earned.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    You think Mozeliak drafted Albert Pujols?

    Put down the Newcastle and step away from the keyboard - and put on the dunce cap you've so clearly earned.


    Roles in St. Louis Cardinals' scouting department (1995–2007)

    When the St. Louis Cardinals hired Jocketty as their GM in 1995, Mozeliak went to St. Louis as well. He served as an assistant within the scouting department and later spent five seasons as Jocketty's assistant GM.[1] He became the assisting scouting director in 1998. The next season, Mozeliak was promoted to scouting director and oversaw the drafting of talent such as Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina.[3] He garnered much attention as a major up-and-coming GM in the industry and interviewed with the Cincinnati Reds and Houston Astros.[4]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mozeliak
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mozeliak

    I see that Mo was a scout during the year that Pujols was drafted but, It appears he didn't become the GM until after Alber was already in "the bigs". I'm going to assume that he may have had no problem with the Cards drafting AP... but, I'm also going to assume he didn't instruct that pick... I'm pretty sure the GM (Jocketty) made the final call on that. I would respectfully ask you to name someone that Mo drafted after becoming GM in 2007. Thanks.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    I see that Mo was a scout during the year that Pujols was drafted but, It appears he didn't become the GM until after Alber was already in "the bigs". I'm going to assume that he may have had no problem with the Cards drafting AP... but, I'm also going to assume he didn't instruct that pick... I'm pretty sure the GM (Jocketty) made the final call on that. I would respectfully ask you to name someone that Mo drafted after becoming GM in 2007. Thanks.
    He wasn't just a scout. He was scouting director. As it states, the scouting director is literally responsible for the draft. It's a task delegated to the scouting director by the GM.

    If you wish to give Luhnow credit for the drafts he's run it's only fair to give Mozeliak the credit for those that he ran.
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    Agreed

    But also, marp. Piscotty. While GM. Bader.
    Last edited by two-hole; 04-11-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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    Bader, Kelly and Voit all have hit solo HRs for Memphis tonight.
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    Flaherty with another good start at AA (7 4 1 1 0 4).
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by TCB 6-4-3 View Post
    Lots of reports on the Peoria staff being loaded in 2016, but the 2017 Springfield Cardinals staff is pretty stout too.

    Flaherty, Alcantara, Hudson & Gomber.

    I expect Junior Fernandez to join the rotation in AA at some point.
    I was unaware that Alcantara had already been promoted to Springfield. That's quite the promotion.

    Good to see he and Flaherty getting off to a good start.
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    2015 1st Rounder Nick Plummer, who missed all of 2016 to an injury, is assigned to Peoria.
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    2017 MiLB assignments

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    Any reports on what Littrell was suspended for? I hadn't heard this.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by TCB 6-4-3 View Post
    Any reports on what Littrell was suspended for? I hadn't heard this.
    Weed. 2nd time.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by crashmeat View Post
    Weed. 2nd time.
    What an idiot. Thx
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mozeliak
    I'll give him "credit" for slyly allowing Pujols to drop until the 13th round.

    Then he swooped in and drafted him.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    I'll give him "credit" for slyly allowing Pujols to drop until the 13th round.

    Then he swooped in and drafted him.
    just think of what utter walking imbeciles those other GM's are! they could've had ALBERT ****ING PUJOLS in the TWELFTH ROUND.

    can't a single one of them recognize talent?!
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    Jack Flattery pitched 7.2 innings with of shutout ball for Springfield allowing 2 hits, a walk and 9 k's. He is now 3-0 with a 0.42 ERA.
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    Flaherty?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Flaherty?
    Clearly...sorry for the iPad auto correct that I missed.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    just think of what utter walking imbeciles those other GM's are! they could've had ALBERT ****ING PUJOLS in the TWELFTH ROUND.

    can't a single one of them recognize talent?!
    The Royals still deserve scorn.

    He lived with one of their top scouts. He was able to practice at Kaufman. Many teams have an excuse for Albert Pujols - the Royals are not among them.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Indy CardsFan View Post
    Clearly...sorry for the iPad auto correct that I missed.
    Funny name. "Jack Flattery" sounds like a junior exec from Mad Men.
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    Yeah, Flaherty is dominating. 21+ IP, 9 H, 19/2 K/BB. That's pretty exciting.

    The rotations at AA and A+ should be interesting to follow. Flaherty, Hudson, Alcantara, Gomber, Woodford, Helsley, Fernandez, Gallen, Jones. Palm Beach is using a 6 man rotation.

    organizational pitching depth chart
    organizational batting depth chart
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Speedy G View Post
    Yeah, Flaherty is dominating. 21+ IP, 9 H, 19/2 K/BB. That's pretty exciting.

    The rotations at AA and A+ should be interesting to follow. Flaherty, Hudson, Alcantara, Gomber, Woodford, Helsley, Fernandez, Gallen, Jones. Palm Beach is using a 6 man rotation.

    organizational pitching depth chart
    organizational batting depth chart


    I'd have to say that we do have the necessary pieces to put in to a trade to pick up a productive bat. I just don't think we have the "gump"-tion to make it happen.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by The Hawk View Post
    I'd have to say that we do have the necessary pieces to put in to a trade to pick up a productive bat. I just don't think we have the "gump"-tion to make it happen.
    I wouldn't make that trade anyway.

    This team isn't winning anything. If Jake Flaherty shows the bonafides to be a #2 or #3 starter in 2019, there's no way you trade him to prop up Mike Matheny.

    Ride this !@#$er to the bottom and jettison so much of the crap that has accumulated. Focus your efforts on bats to re-stock that side of the farm, move heaven and earth to get Luis Robert in here and by 2020 you're looking at a whole new ballclub.

    Carpenter?
    Diaz
    Robert
    Piscotty
    Grichuk/Bader/Sierra
    Delvin Perez
    Carson Kelly
    Garcia? They'll need a plan for 2b/3b. Diaz is probably part of that by the time Perez gets here.

    Martinez
    Reyes
    Flaherty
    Alcantara
    Weaver

    And plenty of arms behind that.

    DO NOT throw prospects at this horrifyingly flawed team. They have to stop trying to patch holes in the dike and commit to just rebuilding the dam because this think isn't going to come together. There's no saving this squad - there's too much chaff and the cavalry is too far away.

    None of the guys in the system can be traded for a return that could be as valuable to this team in 2020 as they could. You may be able to make an old fashioned 'baseball trade' where you move from depth in our system for a team that has some hitting depth in theirs, but those have just become so rare these days that you can't count on them.

    At best you could try to find a 'post-hype' sleeper; someone like a Jorge Solar who you think you can coax some value out of. Maybe you could convince a team like the Cubs (though almost certainly not the Cubs) that Eloy Jiminez or someone of his ilk is less valuable to them than Jack Flaherty would be, but the bust rate on pitching is so much higher that even that seems like an incredible long-shot.

    You're just not likely to get a deal done that helps you long-term from these guys. The right thing to do/have done is to trade veterans from your major league roster to get more of these kinds of lotto tickets.
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    Plummer is already on the DL with an oblique strain.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Wacha Wacha View Post
    Plummer is already on the DL with an oblique strain.
    Plummer doesn't have the developmental time to keep getting hurt.

    Kid came from a cold-weather environment as it is so he has far fewer ABs than a lot of similarly situated prospects. He needed to get out and play then he missed the entire 2016 season.

    Kid's one more lost season from being a non-entity at this point. Truth be told, he may be there already. He's now a 20 yr old kid with a handful of ABs above short season ball under his belt and a ton of rough edges. His ETA can't be seen as any earlier than his age 25 season at this point. There's just no margin for error with him anymore.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Wacha Wacha View Post
    Plummer is already on the DL with an oblique strain.
    Pham 2.0
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    Luis Robert LOL no points for 2nd place
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    I wouldn't make that trade anyway.

    This team isn't winning anything. If Jake Flaherty shows the bonafides to be a #2 or #3 starter in 2019, there's no way you trade him to prop up Mike Matheny.

    Ride this !@#$er to the bottom and jettison so much of the crap that has accumulated. Focus your efforts on bats to re-stock that side of the farm, move heaven and earth to get Luis Robert in here and by 2020 you're looking at a whole new ballclub.

    Carpenter?
    Diaz
    Robert
    Piscotty
    Grichuk/Bader/Sierra
    Delvin Perez
    Carson Kelly
    Garcia? They'll need a plan for 2b/3b. Diaz is probably part of that by the time Perez gets here.

    Martinez
    Reyes
    Flaherty
    Alcantara
    Weaver

    And plenty of arms behind that.

    DO NOT throw prospects at this horrifyingly flawed team. They have to stop trying to patch holes in the dike and commit to just rebuilding the dam because this think isn't going to come together. There's no saving this squad - there's too much chaff and the cavalry is too far away.

    None of the guys in the system can be traded for a return that could be as valuable to this team in 2020 as they could. You may be able to make an old fashioned 'baseball trade' where you move from depth in our system for a team that has some hitting depth in theirs, but those have just become so rare these days that you can't count on them.

    At best you could try to find a 'post-hype' sleeper; someone like a Jorge Solar who you think you can coax some value out of. Maybe you could convince a team like the Cubs (though almost certainly not the Cubs) that Eloy Jiminez or someone of his ilk is less valuable to them than Jack Flaherty would be, but the bust rate on pitching is so much higher that even that seems like an incredible long-shot.

    You're just not likely to get a deal done that helps you long-term from these guys. The right thing to do/have done is to trade veterans from your major league roster to get more of these kinds of lotto tickets.
    Ah, but they were under 'team control'. And, of course, every move Moe makes is a good one
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Redbirdfan1 View Post
    Luis Robert LOL no points for 2nd place
    They have no choice and I'm hoping the wheel spinning out of the gates makes that apparent to them.

    Had they come out on fire and been 5 games up when MLB made him eligible, they wouldn't have recognized the urgency and the thought of throwing $50 million at a wild card would've been a non-starter.

    Right now they have to see that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train. There's no other conclusion to reach. So they'd better by God win this bidding because coming in 2nd (again) is completely unacceptable.
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    I'm finally ready to join the rebuild train. Sign me up.
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    DO NOT throw prospects at this horrifyingly flawed team. They have to stop trying to patch holes in the dike and commit to just rebuilding the dam because this think isn't going to come together. There's no saving this squad - there's too much chaff and the cavalry is too far away.
    Oz, they have gone out of their way to tell us that their M.O. will be to do just that. Patch. "Develop". Promote from within. Aim for third place.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by 85cards View Post
    Oz, they have gone out of their way to tell us that their M.O. will be to do just that. Patch. "Develop". Promote from within. Aim for third place.
    Yeah.

    But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

    They can do stupid shit all day long; it's their circus and their monkeys. That's not gonna stop me from calling it stupid.
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