Time to Sell

[Wacha Wacha]

They never had a shot anyway with their lack of pitching, both rotation and bullpen.

You could add a top of the rotation starter and bullpen arm before the deadline and it still wouldn't be enough.

The lineup has done well to score runs, but honestly only three hitters are doing great, Carpenter (heading to DL), Diaz, and Piscotty.

Looking at the roster, I think the only pitchers that a team might want are Garcia and Oh. Bat wise, Diaz is probably the only player that teams would inquire about with Carpenter on the DL and Holiday with an NTC and no desire to leave. Peralta? Doubt anyone would have interest but could be wrong and the same goes for Gyorko. Piscotty could be moved but his asking price would be enormous based on what we've seen and the fact that he's under team control. At least with Diaz a team might have interest in moving him to a more favorable position; a team that already has a real shortstop and can afford such a move. Diaz has another year of team control for only 2.5M, and while he may offer a solid return in prospects, I have zero interest in seeing Peralta return as the everyday short stop.

I don't think that we have much to sell, but it would be nice to for a change as this team is pretty bad all around, especially with pitching and defense.

[ilcardsfan]

They never had a shot anyway with their lack of pitching, both rotation and bullpen.

You could add a top of the rotation starter and bullpen arm before the deadline and it still wouldn't be enough.

The lineup has done well to score runs, but honestly only three hitters are doing great, Carpenter (heading to DL), Diaz, and Piscotty.

Looking at the roster, I think the only pitchers that a team might want are Garcia and Oh. Bat wise, Diaz is probably the only player that teams would inquire about with Carpenter on the DL and Holiday with an NTC and no desire to leave. Peralta? Doubt anyone would have interest but could be wrong and the same goes for Gyorko. Piscotty could be moved but his asking price would be enormous based on what we've seen and the fact that he's under team control. At least with Diaz a team might have interest in moving him to a more favorable position; a team that already has a real shortstop and can afford such a move. Diaz has another year of team control for only 2.5M, and while he may offer a solid return in prospects, I have zero interest in seeing Peralta return as the everyday short stop.

I don't think that we have much to sell, but it would be nice to for a change as this team is pretty bad all around, especially with pitching and defense.

Wasting your breath. The STL PR machine doesn't allow such things. Instead, we will invest in a couple more Brayan Penas, Jake Westbrooks and Justin Mastersons at a cost of prospects and maybe a young player or two, namely Wong, Pham or Grichuk.

[OzzieFan]

At this point with the relief pitching smashed to bits... and with injuries all over the offense...

You have to look at selling and retooling.

[85cards]

At this point with the relief pitching smashed to bits... and with injuries all over the offense...

You have to look at selling and retooling.

I agree but I simply cannot see Mo and DeWitt doing that. Ever.

[paulie walnuts]

We're not sellers yet.

And regardless of that decision, the idea of trading Piscotty is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a long time. At least on the baseball forum.

[barnbird]

This team was doomed from the get go Moz and Dewitt did a terrible job of filling the gaping holes this team has gotten much older. I think Heyward was right in assessing this teams immediate future.

[crashmeat]

We're not sellers yet.

And regardless of that decision, the idea of trading Piscotty is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a long time.

Or Diaz. Crazy talk.

This team should NOT be in sell mode.

(Yet.)

[barnbird]

It appears Heyward was correct in his assessment of this teams immediate future and Dewitt and Moz did didley squat to fill the holes. This team as some old people playing in key positions Holiday,Peralta and Molina not to mention the meathead running this team. I think it is time to retool as well.

[OzzieFan]

We're not sellers yet.

And regardless of that decision, the idea of trading Piscotty is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a long time. At least on the baseball forum.

I would never ever ever trade him... Unless you were getting back something very valuable.

[OzzieFan]

This team was doomed from the get go Moz and Dewitt did a terrible job of filling the gaping holes this team has gotten much older. I think Heyward was right in assessing this teams immediate future.

I'm glad he's the Cubs problem.

[OzzieFan]

Or Diaz. Crazy talk.

This team should NOT be in sell mode.

(Yet.)

Who is suggesting trading Diaz and Piscotty? More like Holliday, Moss, etc. Any player over 30 (not named Molina).

[crashmeat]

Who is suggesting trading Diaz and Piscotty? More like Holliday, Moss, etc. Any player over 30 (not named Molina).

The OP.

[barnbird]

I'm glad he's the Cubs problem.

I agree but he was right so far eh ?

[Wacha Wacha]

We're not sellers yet.

And regardless of that decision, the idea of trading Piscotty is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a long time. At least on the baseball forum.

Nobody's suggesting that Piscotty or Diaz should be traded, but rather what players other teams may have interest in.

Our team is bad enough that it's a relatively short list.

[crashmeat]

Nobody's suggesting that Piscotty or Diaz should be traded..

Yeah, my bad. Looks like I just misread you.

Hard to imagine, what with that seizure-inducing font.

[The Iguana]

I think, honestly, that management gave up on this season when they missed out on Heyward (which i think we're all less unhappy about) and Price. Their biggest moves have all been in the draft and Latin American pool. Those are long-term moves.

I think they knew they had a .500 team on their hands, and they were willing to deal with it, in hopes that better things were coming down the pike, at least a few years from now. Rebuilds are not how they roll. And hey - there was always the chance the Cards might get lucky somewhere...the second wild card makes it easier to grab a playoff berth. The team would be just good enough to convince enough fans to stay invested in that same hope, and keep the seats full.

In so doing, they missed out on some worthwhile deals that would have made this team more competitive now without gutting its farm or its checking account. But you can go back and read Oz's posts if you want to know what those were.

They're not going to sell, and they're not going to buy much. That's just the reality. It's who they are and how they operate.

[TCB 6-4-3]

Trade J Garcia (Lynn or Reyes replaces him in 2017 anyways)
Trade Holliday (he'll waive his NTC to ensure he isn't tagged with a QO)
When Moss gets healthy, trade him
If Peralta can get us an MLB 20 20 prospect, trade him.

Everyone else, keep them.

[STJOMO]

I think, honestly, that management gave up on this season when they missed out on Heyward (which i think we're all less unhappy about) and Price. Their biggest moves have all been in the draft and Latin American pool. Those are long-term moves.

I think they knew they had a .500 team on their hands, and they were willing to deal with it, in hopes that better things were coming down the pike, at least a few years from now. Rebuilds are not how they roll. And hey - there was always the chance the Cards might get lucky somewhere...the second wild card makes it easier to grab a playoff berth. The team would be just good enough to convince enough fans to stay invested in that same hope, and keep the seats full.

In so doing, they missed out on some worthwhile deals that would have made this team more competitive now without gutting its farm or its checking account. But you can go back and read Oz's posts if you want to know what those were.

They're not going to sell, and they're not going to buy much. That's just the reality. It's who they are and how they operate.

By far, the most cogent comment on this thread. Spot-on. They're drawing 42,000 to sit in the hot sun to see a mediocre team play. Why should they change anything?

[The Iguana]

By far, the most cogent comment on this thread. Spot-on. They're drawing 42,000 to sit in the hot sun to see a mediocre team play. Why should they change anything?

Well, I want to be fair: Some say DeWitt doesn't give a damn about winning, so long as the seats are full and the $8.75 beer is selling. I think his record gives him some standing on that score.

I also think he's a cautious operator, maybe too cautious. He buys in a little too eagerly into the crapshoot theory of the playoffs. I think the two titles he's gotten have shaped his views on that unduly.

The reality is that this team is more than a couple pieces away from being a Series contender. DeWitt knows it. Unfortunately, I'm afraid he's unwilling to make a sell move, because it will demoralize the fan base. And hey. there's still a 17% or whatever chance that the Cardinals might sneak into the second Wild Card for the honor of getting skunked by the Dodgers in the play-in game.

[Redbirdfan1]

Cards were among several "contenders" scouting Sonny Gray....

[barnbird]

By far, the most cogent comment on this thread. Spot-on. They're drawing 42,000 to sit in the hot sun to see a mediocre team play. Why should they change anything?

I remember a time back in the 90's when Busch gave up and the attendance dropped in half it can happen again the fans will catch on quickly.

[TCB 6-4-3]

Cards were among several "contenders" scouting Sonny Gray....

Can he hit 30HR & 45 doubles in the leadoff spot?

[Harry Caray]

I think, honestly, that management gave up on this season when they missed out on Heyward (which i think we're all less unhappy about) and Price. Their biggest moves have all been in the draft and Latin American pool. Those are long-term moves.

I think they knew they had a .500 team on their hands, and they were willing to deal with it, in hopes that better things were coming down the pike, at least a few years from now. Rebuilds are not how they roll. And hey - there was always the chance the Cards might get lucky somewhere...the second wild card makes it easier to grab a playoff berth. The team would be just good enough to convince enough fans to stay invested in that same hope, and keep the seats full.

In so doing, they missed out on some worthwhile deals that would have made this team more competitive now without gutting its farm or its checking account. But you can go back and read Oz's posts if you want to know what those were.

They're not going to sell, and they're not going to buy much. That's just the reality. It's who they are and how they operate.

I think there's a lot of truth to this. If the Cardinals do anything at all, it will fall somewhere in between a buyer and a seller ... and will likely have little effect as far as 2016 goes.

Two things I'll add. One, the Cubs performance would be one thing that could spur more rapid movement by the organization. That's the one team that Cardinals will always have an eye on the NL Central, because the other three will tend to roller-coaster in performance over a period of time.

The other is that if this organization wants to be viable over the next five years or so, then going into sell mode to replenish the system would be the route to go. They would have to be willing to take a hit for a year or two, but could come out of it a lot better off by 2019 if they played their cards right. However, little to nothing in terms of movement could very well lead to an extended drought like we saw in the early 90s, with no post-seasons for a while.

[hayduke]

He buys in a little too eagerly into the crapshoot theory of the playoffs. I think the two titles he's gotten have shaped his views on that unduly.
.

And the one he didn't get in 2004. Even in 2013, I bet he expected a competitive Series, and maybe a win - I know I did. Effing Red Sox.

[John D]

By far, the most cogent comment on this thread. Spot-on. They're drawing 42,000 to sit in the hot sun to see a mediocre team play. Why should they change anything?

It "worked" for the Brewery - for awhile.

[Wacha Wacha]

We're easily a losing team if it wasn't for Carp's MVP type season.

I don't see the team selling, but it would be nice to improve the club through subtraction at least.

Don't be shocked if the team tries to dump payroll, as they're already not getting much for their money.

We may not get a Lackey type trade done but the team may try something similar to at least get rid of dead weight and contracts.

[Grandpa Boog]

Trade J Garcia (Lynn or Reyes replaces him in 2017 anyways)
Trade Holliday (he'll waive his NTC to ensure he isn't tagged with a QO)
When Moss gets healthy, trade him
If Peralta can get us an MLB 20 20 prospect, trade him.

Everyone else, keep them.

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TCB,
I agree but would also add Adams to the list. Move MCarp to 1B and give G. Garcia a full-time shot at 2B. He can play defense and is a contact hitter.

Stay tuned,

[The Iguana]

And the one he didn't get in 2004. Even in 2013, I bet he expected a competitive Series, and maybe a win - I know I did. Effing Red Sox.

Good point.

[rollo58]

===============================
TCB,
I agree but would also add Adams to the list. Move MCarp to 1B and give G. Garcia a full-time shot at 2B. He can play defense and is a contact hitter.

Stay tuned,

I like that GB. Kinda wish we had Freese back the way he's hitting...would look good at 3rd. (adams is flotsam)

[Wacha Wacha]

We're not sellers yet.

And regardless of that decision, the idea of trading Piscotty is about the dumbest thing I've seen here in a long time. At least on the baseball forum.

Moe must have agreed with you, because he went out and extended him.

Complimentary players are always expendable if the return is good enough. Piscotty and Diaz will never be anything greater than complimentary players.

Now neither of players would fetch much of a return..... same with Carpenter.