Thread: So...hockey thread?

  1. #151
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    But here's the thing - that list keeps citing backups who's numbers really aren't appreciably worse than Brodeurs. Nasville, Minn, and TB are all explained by essentially saying "well the backup has put up a save% of about .900 w/ a GAA in the mid 2's and said backup is old".

    That's all Brodeur has done. Why would a team surrender assets to move on from Nabakov to Brodeur when they're essentially the exact same guy?

    Now the Islanders and Dallas may make a little bit of sense and would fall under the 'teams desperate enough to surrender a nominal asset' category, but frankly, I'm not sure the Islanders care that much; they'll ride Halak and have enough wiggle room on a playoff seed that I can't see them surrendering assets to get a marginal improvement for the 10 games they'll maybe play their backup in down the stretch. Moreover, their current backup is on a 2 yr deal for a pretty good sum of money. Dallas is presently looking like a long-shot for the playoffs and if they make it, it will be on Lehtonin's back rather than because of a backup goalie. If I'm putting $$ on a team, it's them as they know they'd be dangerous if they can just sneak in and every point is precious for them at this stage. But they're only a bad couple of weeks from deciding they're out of it altogether.

    Again, Marty's just not very good these days. The article itself refers to Brodeur 'signing' with a team, so it's not really discussing trade scenarios as much as it is teams that might be willing to take him on if the cost is zero. Sure - I think a team would be willing to do something like that. I just don't see one surrendering an asset for him.
    I think some team will look at their JAG backup, see that they can get similar performance from a HOF champion legend, and will think..."I can put a guy on my bench who may just have some magic left in a short run...just in case i need him. A guy who won't shrink from the biggest possible game. Season on the line, who do I want on my bench in case my primary goalie sprains a groin or gets 4 goals dumped on him in the 1st period? Marty Brodeur, or Buck Schmuck?" And I think they'll toss us a marginal asset for the peace of mind. A 4th rounder isn't much. Brody himself is already very cheap in $$$.

    Ultimately, we'll see. I'm not putting my entire board credibility on it...ultimately, i don't know the hockey market that well. Hell, maybe it's just wishful thinking.

    Who do you want coming in to pinch hit in the bottom of the ninth in a WS game? J.R. Murphy? Or Carlos Beltran?
    Last edited by two-hole; 01-12-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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  2. #152
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    Brodeur has left the team and asked the Blues for a week to ponder his future.

    According to Lou Korac (Blues beat writer), no market has developed for him.
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  3. #153
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    Also worth noting, the Wild acquired Devan Dubnyk for a 3rd rounder. It's not terribly difficult to read between the lines there and conclude that perhaps the Blues were trying to put something together with MN, they passed to go with Dubnyk instead, Army advised Brodeur that no market came together for him and now Brodeur is going to ponder retirement.

    Armstrong has been damn accommodating with Brodeur to this point. I really think he'd give the guy away just to get him playing time if anyone was really expressing interest. The fact that Brodeur is leaving the team rather than asking for his release suggests that there's simply nobody calling for him.
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  4. #154
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    Oh well.
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  5. #155
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    Adieu , Martin . A peine vous saviez
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  6. #156
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    I think some team will look at their JAG backup, see that they can get similar performance from a HOF champion legend, and will think..."I can put a guy on my bench who may just have some magic left in a short run...just in case i need him. A guy who won't shrink from the biggest possible game. Season on the line, who do I want on my bench in case my primary goalie sprains a groin or gets 4 goals dumped on him in the 1st period? Marty Brodeur, or Buck Schmuck?" And I think they'll toss us a marginal asset for the peace of mind. A 4th rounder isn't much. Brody himself is already very cheap in $$$.

    Ultimately, we'll see. I'm not putting my entire board credibility on it...ultimately, i don't know the hockey market that well. Hell, maybe it's just wishful thinking.

    Who do you want coming in to pinch hit in the bottom of the ninth in a WS game? J.R. Murphy? Or Carlos Beltran?
    We've established that it's Aaron Rowand over Pujols with the All-Star game hanging in the balance.
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  7. #157
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    {sigh}

    Redwings - same as it ever was.

    LaPierre just got a holding penalty because he was near a Redwing that fell over. I am so so so happy those assholes aren't in our division anymore.
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  8. #158
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    Also worth noting, the Wild acquired Devan Dubnyk for a 3rd rounder. It's not terribly difficult to read between the lines there and conclude that perhaps the Blues were trying to put something together with MN, they passed to go with Dubnyk instead, Army advised Brodeur that no market came together for him and now Brodeur is going to ponder retirement.

    Armstrong has been damn accommodating with Brodeur to this point. I really think he'd give the guy away just to get him playing time if anyone was really expressing interest. The fact that Brodeur is leaving the team rather than asking for his release suggests that there's simply nobody calling for him.
    Yup. You may be right after all. When I heard Brodie was going on an LOA, I knew that was a big sign there wasn't much interest.
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  9. #159
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    The game they played against Colorado last night just might be the best game they are capable of playing.

    The scoreboard says 3-1, but Varlamov stood on his head and their lone tally was on a fluke deflection off Stastny during an attempted centering pass. The Blues simply dominated that game. They allowed zero shots on 3 power plays. They were able to cycle the puck seemingly at will and were absolute animals on the forecheck. One play that really stood out was early in the first when Jaskin forced a great scoring chance by just hounding a defenseman on the forecheck, backing him past the faceoff dots and forcing him to cough up the puck creating a nice look for Schwartz. Jaskin absolutely gets it and definitely deserves top 9 minutes from here out.

    They absolutely took it to a solid team last night. After the second intermission, Roenick was doing the analysis and asked Anson Carter what Colorado needed to do to get back into it in the third period and Carter flatly said 'nothing - they can't. If the Blues play the 3rd period like they played the 2nd, the Avalanche can't come back against this team'.
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  10. #160
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    Ha, yes, the in-game and post-game analysis from the NBC folks was really refreshing and delightful to hear. They were just heaping praise on the blues, which you get on FSMW, but know that it's homerism. When your small market team gets embarrassingly adored by unbiased commentators...that's just fun.

    There were still a couple giveaways that Elliott had to rob in the first period. He had a couple highlight reel saves. But other than that...they continued their recent trend of absolutely dominating and controlling a weak team.
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  11. #161
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    adored by unbiased commentators
    I absolutely do not consider Jeremy Roenick an "unbiased commentator". That dude is a giant butthole and in my opinion does not like the Blues at all. But to your point, they left him no choice but to praise their game.

    That 2nd period was insane. It seemed like the only time the puck came into the Blues zone was when the Blues were re-grouping. Don't even remember CO having possession in our end.
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  12. #162
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    The point was made last night that it's almost too bad they have to take such a long break right now - 11 days. They looked awesome last night.
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  13. #163
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    The point was made last night that it's almost too bad they have to take such a long break right now - 11 days. They looked awesome last night.
    7-0-1 in their last 8. 15 of 16 points. Pretty decent.

    I agree, it's a shame they have to stop right now because they are firing on all cylinders.
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  14. #164
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    Hey Barn: Elliott is 6-1-1 since he came back with a GAA of 1.75 and a SV% of .928.

    Elliott's really stepped up big time this year. His presence changes the way the entire team plays. They're less frenetic and more composed in the defensive zone. When Allen/Brodeur are back there, they're constantly trying to play overly aggressive (I guess out of concern that 3 goals won't hold up) to force scoring chances and invariably end up turning the puck over either in their own end or in the neutral zone.

    It's a lot like Nashville with Pekka Rinne. That team is completely different when he's between the pipes.

    Elliott's been tested at this point. He's earned a starting job...then lost it...then earned it back. All the while, he's put up phenomenal numbers. His career numbers as a Blue are almost identical to the numbers he's put up this season - 1.86 GAA and a .927 SV%. He's put up a QS% of .690. For perspective, league average is .530, Halak was at .577 in STL. The 'elite' goaltenders in the NHL aren't beating that either; Rask is at .668, Lundqvist is at .608 and hasn't hit .690 for a single season in his career. Quick is at .560, Varlamov is at .571, Lehtonen at .555. So Rask is close and then there isn't anyone else even within spitting distance of Elliott. Most of them have never had a single season as good as Elliott's career average.

    And somehow, when his Blues career is over, Elliott will have been paid less than $12 million for 6 years of pretty stellar play, largely because he just rarely got the recognition he deserved. We gave Halak $15 million for 4 years of fairly erratic play that eventually ran him out of town. At the end of Halak and Elliot's respective deals, Halak will have been paid $33 million for his last 8 seasons - Elliott will have been paid $13.4 and will almost certainly have had a better 8 year run. Armstrong has gotten a friggen steal with this guy.
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  15. #165
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    Just as Halak's career was made by getting hot with the Canadiens in the playoffs, Elliott's reputation largely results from that softie he gave up vs. LA in overtime.

    It's not particularly fair, but it is what it is.
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  16. #166
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    Hey Barn: Elliott is 6-1-1 since he came back with a GAA of 1.75 and a SV% of .928.

    Elliott's really stepped up big time this year. His presence changes the way the entire team plays. They're less frenetic and more composed in the defensive zone. When Allen/Brodeur are back there, they're constantly trying to play overly aggressive (I guess out of concern that 3 goals won't hold up) to force scoring chances and invariably end up turning the puck over either in their own end or in the neutral zone.

    It's a lot like Nashville with Pekka Rinne. That team is completely different when he's between the pipes.

    Elliott's been tested at this point. He's earned a starting job...then lost it...then earned it back. All the while, he's put up phenomenal numbers. His career numbers as a Blue are almost identical to the numbers he's put up this season - 1.86 GAA and a .927 SV%. He's put up a QS% of .690. For perspective, league average is .530, Halak was at .577 in STL. The 'elite' goaltenders in the NHL aren't beating that either; Rask is at .668, Lundqvist is at .608 and hasn't hit .690 for a single season in his career. Quick is at .560, Varlamov is at .571, Lehtonen at .555. So Rask is close and then there isn't anyone else even within spitting distance of Elliott. Most of them have never had a single season as good as Elliott's career average.

    And somehow, when his Blues career is over, Elliott will have been paid less than $12 million for 6 years of pretty stellar play, largely because he just rarely got the recognition he deserved. We gave Halak $15 million for 4 years of fairly erratic play that eventually ran him out of town. At the end of Halak and Elliot's respective deals, Halak will have been paid $33 million for his last 8 seasons - Elliott will have been paid $13.4 and will almost certainly have had a better 8 year run. Armstrong has gotten a friggen steal with this guy.
    I must concur and have watched several games the whole team has picked up their play.
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  17. #167
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    Okay, time for crow. Oz was right.

    Marty set to announce retirement; join Blues front office. per The Score.
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    Blues deal LaPierre to Pens for Marcel Goc. Surprising, I like the way Maxim had been playing.
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  19. #169
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Blues deal LaPierre to Pens for Marcel Goc. Surprising, I like the way Maxim had been playing.
    I searched high and low - all over my house - could not find a single **** to give about this trade.

    I guess Goc probably has a little more upside, though I think LaPierre has a little more speed and more of an edge. Ultimately it gets to what I mentioned awhile ago - losing Sobotka means we don't have anyone that can move up a line in the event of an injury to a top 6 forward. Goc could probably move up to the 3rd line if we lost a top 6 guy and do a credible job. We know Ott couldn't and LaPierre is probably a little too dirty to risk that kind of ice time.

    So ultimately Goc probably provides a little better injury insurance for a top 6 forward. So if for no other reason than this should save us from ever seeing Ott above the 4th line again, this is probably a good pickup.
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  20. #170
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    They are basically the same player, except for handedness. Is that the impetus for this trade? I'm not familiar with Goc, but I think Lappy was playing a really solid season.

    Maybe also it's getting a guy who won't burn you by taking a thoughtless penalty in a close playoff game. Goc has taken 2 minors this season, to Lappy's 8. And we know Lappy's reputation, although he looked much more disciplined this season compared to last year.

    But ultimately, yeah, this trade is tough to care about.
    Last edited by two-hole; 01-28-2015 at 09:18 AM.
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  21. #171
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    They are basically the same player, except for handedness. Is that the impetus for this trade? I'm not familiar with Goc, but I think Lappy was playing a really solid season.

    Maybe also it's getting a guy who won't burn you by taking a thoughtless penalty in a close playoff game.
    Eh, statistically they are but stylistically they aren't.

    Goc is just a little more skilled and a little more controlled in his play. Now I'm not exactly sure how that makes him a better fit for the 4th line (as that line was doing a great job of flying around and hitting guys) but it does make him a better fit for the 3rd.

    Remember - we hired Jim Corsi himself, so I would suspect that the Blues are putting an emphasis on puck control and positive CORSI figures. Well, Goc at least used to be an absolute stud in that regard. He appears to have fallen off a fair amount in Pit, but at the same time, Corsi is oddly use dependent (though it tracks extremely well on a team-team basis for the most part).

    http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/

    As I see it, we traded a Tyson Nash type of player for a guy that could be a Jay McClement or even Michael Handzus type of player. I think we'll miss LaPierre's edge and toughness on the 4th line but perhaps they intend to make a move with Berglund soon, move Goc to the 3rd and put Porter back on the 4th. Or maybe they were just nervous about the lack of versatile depth at the bottom of the forward roster.
    Last edited by Oz-iz-God; 01-28-2015 at 09:39 AM.
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  22. #172
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    Interesting quotes in here on the trade:

    http://lkorac10.blogspot.com/2015/01...ills-need.html

    Yeah, mostly it sounds like they liked his ability to move up to the 3rd line if necessary, plays a calmer game and is more capable/interested in controlling the puck.

    I guess I see their point. I noted he plays a more controlled game but thought that would make him a fish out of water on that 4th line. However, Hitch (who knows a damn sight more about hockey than I do), makes a good point - having three guys looking to hit people and abandoning their zones will lead to some odd-man rushes.

    Makes sense. Sounds like they had a good plan in making the trade and in the end, got a slightly higher upside player, IMO.

    It's a good feeling to trust you GM/HC.
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  23. #173
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    Still can't figure out why Ott was signed - but that's nit-picking.
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  24. #174
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    It's a good feeling to trust you GM/HC.
    A-MEN. Love those guys.
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  25. #175
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    it's Tyme!

    blues recall F Ty Rattie from AHL.
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  26. #176
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    it's Tyme!

    blues recall F Ty Rattie from AHL.
    Problematic timing to some degree - he's been in a bit of a scoring funk. Ideally you call guys up when they're performing and confident.

    He's not really all that good at anything else so if he's not scoring, he's not terribly useful. At least this suggests that the Lindstrom experiment is likely mercifully over. I figure they'll have Ott centering the 4th and Porter on the wing. Goc moves up to the third with Stastny moving up to the 2nd (clearing a spot for Rattie on the 3rd with Jaskin and Goc).
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  27. #177
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    Goc deal starting to make more sense
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  28. #178
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    Goc deal starting to make more sense
    I'll withhold judgment.

    If Ott's centering the 3rd line tonight, I will not be pleased.
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  29. #179
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    I'll withhold judgment.

    If Ott's centering the 3rd line tonight, I will not be pleased.
    Count me "in" that group.
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  30. #180
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    The play where Jake Allen let that puck hit the post?

    Sigh
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  31. #181
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    Bad news Shattenkirk out indef stomach surgery
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  32. #182
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    "Week to week," whatever that means. Let's hope he's back and at full steam come playoff time.
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    Time for Jay Bouwmeester to step the !@#$ up.

    He's been little more than a rich man's Barrett Jackman thus far. He's able to soak up more minutes than Jax, but apart from that, he's not been sharp on his outlet passes and seems like he absolutely refuses to pinch or even start the rush. I figured we'd get more Chris Pronger than Jeff Finley when we signed this guy to a 6 year deal.

    And Petro needs to re-discover his form as well. This season Shatty has been what Pietrangelo was supposed to be. If Alex can step his game back up to last year's level, losing Shatty on the PP won't hurt quite as bad. Cole and Lindobohm could absorb some 3rd pair minutes and we can weather the loss.

    Same shit every year, but at least this year we appear to have some very high quality depth to get through it.
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  34. #184
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    Time for Jay Bouwmeester to step the !@#$ up.

    He's been little more than a rich man's Barrett Jackman thus far. He's able to soak up more minutes than Jax, but apart from that, he's not been sharp on his outlet passes and seems like he absolutely refuses to pinch or even start the rush. I figured we'd get more Chris Pronger than Jeff Finley when we signed this guy to a 6 year deal.

    And Petro needs to re-discover his form as well. This season Shatty has been what Pietrangelo was supposed to be. If Alex can step his game back up to last year's level, losing Shatty on the PP won't hurt quite as bad. Cole and Lindobohm could absorb some 3rd pair minutes and we can weather the loss.

    Same shit every year, but at least this year we appear to have some very high quality depth to get through it.
    How old is he?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by John D View Post
    How old is he?
    Jackman - 33
    Bouwmeester - 31
    Pietrangelo - 25
    Shattenkirk - 26
    Cole - 25
    Lindbohm - 21
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  36. #186
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    Jackman - 33
    Bouwmeester - 31
    Pietrangelo - 25
    Shattenkirk - 26
    Cole - 25
    Lindbohm - 21
    He's got plenty of miles on him. It may be simply physical decline.

    It would likely benefit him to play "less"... just when the team needs him more.
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  37. #187
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    Did they really sign Bouwmeester for 6 years? Crikey.
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  38. #188
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Did they really sign Bouwmeester for 6 years? Crikey.
    Through the 2017-2018 season at $5.4 million/season.

    It's already not a good deal and it's only going to get worse. Then again, Stastny's deal is looking pretty lousy right now as well.

    We have some high-profile guys that are underachieving right now. But just like all regular season success will be forgotten if we fail in the playoffs, all regular season scuffling will be forgotten if they excel during a Cup run as well.

    EDIT: Hell, it looks like it's even worse than that; the extension didn't kick in until after the year of team control we already had expired so he's a Blue through 2018-2019.

    That is soooooooo loooooooong for a guy that has clearly lost a step. They'd be smart to try to deal him in the off-season.
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  39. #189
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    If they deal him, they'll need to sign another Dman. Ian Cole sure ain't the answer. I don't think Hakanpaa is ready.
    Last edited by two-hole; 02-03-2015 at 04:50 PM.
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  40. #190
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    If they deal him, they'll need to sign another Dman. Ian Cole sure ain't the answer.
    Maybe if they'd play him more than 35% of the time he'd learn something.

    No, Cole isn't going to replace Bouwmeester, but that's not what you need. The Blues can't continue to dump this much money into their D-Core and expect to retain Tarasenko and Schwartz long term, especially not if they hope to re-up Backes in a couple years. Shatty is a UFA 2 seasons after this one.

    The team is in fine shape for this season and next, but the 16-17 season and beyond is going to require some serious tapdancing if they hope to keep this squad remotely intact. If they can dump the $5.4 million they're spending on Bouwmeester and get merely credible work from a guy like Butler for $1 million/season, that's a lot of money they can free up. Cole could absolutely be a regular 4th defenseman in the NHL and he'd do it for cheap.

    They can't keep plowing 40% of their cap into the D-Corps if they hope to keep this forward group intact. Ultimately the Forwards are far more important in this system. Yes, Hitch runs a defensively oriented scheme but he does it by demanding tenacious backchecking. The forwards make the defensemens job much easier in this system.

    Is that going to require we step down a bit with our stay at home defenseman? Sure. But that's like taking a step back with your 4th starter because you want to make sure to get your 3-5 hitters re-signed. It's just a fact of life in a cap league.
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  41. #191
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    Elliott stood on his head last night and Vlad/Schwartz came up big when they needed to.

    I don't really think anyone else deserves to be mentioned after last night's effort. Stastny played a solid game and Backes got on Stamkos' grill a little bit, but apart from that, the only 3 guys that answered the bell were Elliott, Tarasenko and Schwartz. Pulling off a win against the top team in the East while being seriously depleted by injuries and playing like ass is extremely impressive.

    That was a huge gut-check win and the second of those they've had in the last 3 days.
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  42. #192
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    Oshie didn't make the scoreboard, but he was max-effort combined with some really nifty passes that led to some good chances.

    But, yeah, they looked a step slow. The first and third periods were two of the worst periods they've played all season. Elliott did was great goalies are supposed to do. He stole a game they should have lost handily. And...it's like I said earlier in the season, they didn't give up and they got the puck to their playmaker, Tank. With him, they are always within striking distance.
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    I didn't watch, but Tampa is an elite team. A win against them is something to be proud of.
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  44. #194
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    Dec 2006
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    Saint Louis, MO
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    Backes won 18 of 24 faceoffs.
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  45. #195
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    Nov 2001
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    Columbia, MO
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    Backes won 18 of 24 faceoffs.
    And Stastny won the key one to set up the Tank goal.

    I think Hitch really focuses on the importance of the faceoff dot. I feel like that's perhaps another reason why they pursued Goc. Statistically he's been about the same as LaPierre this year but historically he's been among the best. Seems like they're probably just a little more comfortable with him taking those faceoffs especially in their own zone.

    Ultimately, that felt like a game we've been on the opposite side of dozens of times over the years. I can't count how many times we'd go out there, beat the brakes off a team and then watch Turek give up a softy in the 3rd to lose 2-1 despite outshooting our opponent 35-18.

    Elliott makes this team go.
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  46. #196
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    Dec 2006
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    Elliott makes this team go.
    No doubt. No doubt at all. If anyone doesn't realize how confidence in the goalie changes the way the entire team plays...they need to review this team when Elliott was out this year.
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  47. #197
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    Jul 2002
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    Even with the lackluster performance last night, they gave Buffalo a greater chance to get McDavid with a 3-0 victory.

    Onward to Columbus tonight to try to improve to 14-0-1 in their last 15.

    The last 18 games that Schwartz has played, the Blues are 17-0-1.
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  48. #198
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Reinbeck, Iowa
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    3,871
    I'll never believe in this team until they win in June. I'll check the scores, of course. But this franchise has an inevitability of failure in its DNA.
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  49. #199
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    VT
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    So...hockey thread?

    A bad night was inevitable. Yikes.

    On the road, second of a back to back, against a well-rested team that had lost their last three.

    Yup.
    Last edited by paulie walnuts; 02-07-2015 at 08:08 AM.
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  50. #200
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Land of fruits and nuts
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by STJOMO View Post
    I'll never believe in this team until they win in June. I'll check the scores, of course. But this franchise has an inevitability of failure in its DNA.
    Just things like the Shattenkirk injury always seem to come in play for the Blues.
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