Thread: So...hockey thread?

  1. #1
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    So...hockey thread?

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    Yeah, I know.

    But the Tigers are led by Blaine Gabbert II (happy feet, spends more time staring at the rush than looking for receivers), the Chiefs are doomed to mediocrity again and the Rams will be lucky to even reach that. Spring training is far away and this World Series can't get over fast enough.

    So hey, a hockey thread might not be awful. Or it might be.

    Ugh...**** the Giants.
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    LOL you really are a glutton for punishment, Oz.
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    Honestly, what did the Blues do to piss of Jonathan Quick? He's mortal against the rest of the NHL but put him between the pipes against the Blues and suddenly every puck's just floating there for him like a Pat Neshek fastball.
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    43 shots on goal, dueling shutouts into overtime and we lose the shootout 1-0.

    Because Jonathan Quick is the devil.
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    So...hockey thread?

    Shootouts can go either way. They got a point against the reigning Stanley Cup champs, in their building. The road to the finals goes through Staples Center. Nothing to hang their heads about here.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Shootouts can go either way. They got a point against the reigning Stanley Cup champs, in their building. The road to the finals goes through Staples Center. Nothing to hang their heads about here.
    Agree, but we completely outplayed them the entire game. Quick is to the Blues as the Giants are to the Cardinals. For now I'll take the point and be happy that the Blues looked good and it's only the 3rd game of the season.

    I love Vladimir Tarasenko
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    I'll take your word for it. I was watching a different game.
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    Bringing up the Blues at a time like this is in bad taste.
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    Yep they managed to lose last night as well same ole same ole
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by STJOMO View Post
    Bringing up the Blues at a time like this is in bad taste.
    Here's the good news - if they can't win a cup in the next 2 years with this team, we can close the book on the possibility of them ever winning one.

    This is, without question, the most talented Blues team ever assembled. They have shooters, passers, hitters, skaters, defensive forwards and offensive defensemen.

    They have everything. Find a hole in this friggen team - I just don't know how you can. They can role a friggen third line has 3 guys that can/should score 20 goals this year in Berglund, Oshie and Lindstrom with the remaining top 6 forwards all being capable of scoring 30 goals or dishing 50 assists (Steen, Backes, Stastny, Schwartz, Lehtera, Tarasenko). Guys like Jaskin and Rattie can't even make the team.

    Elliot's good. He's not one of the top 3 goalies in hockey, but he's among the top 10, IMO.

    If this team can't win in the next 2 years, it's time to give up on them because it simply isn't going to happen for them. They're the Cubs of the NHL at that point and we should probably just hope someone moves them to Portland and puts us out of our misery.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    Elliot's good. He's not one of the top 3 goalies in hockey, but he's among the top 10, IMO.
    And his backup is Jake Allen. And although he's largely unproven over the long haul in the NHL, he has shown that at worst he's a very good backup.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    And his backup is Jake Allen. And although he's largely unproven over the long haul in the NHL, he has shown that at worst he's a very good backup.
    He's been the best goalie in the AHL for the past 2 seasons.

    I believe I read last year that he's the first goalie since Tom Barasso early 80s to lead the AHL in wins, GAA and SV%. The kid's a truly elite prospect; the best we've had since Joseph.

    More important than his ability outright is his ability to push Elliott. Elliott has always been at his best when he was being pushed. Whenever Halak would get hurt, Elliott would stumble when he a clear handle on the job. He needs to have his job on the line every night to be at his best, IMO.

    Allen definitely has the pedigree and potential to push Elliott to be at his best.
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    My only concern is the same as it's ever been. Do we lack a truly elite scorer? Or can a team expect to win it all on 3 lines of 20-somethings?
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    Blues just can't beat those California teams.
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    I really like Allen.

    When they obtained Miller last year, I'd have just as easily accepted bringing up Allen and saying, "Saddle Up" Kid.
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    They look like last years version with the same old Hitchcock running the show.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    My only concern is the same as it's ever been. Do we lack a truly elite scorer? Or can a team expect to win it all on 3 lines of 20-somethings?
    Tarasenko and Schwartz are both capable of putting up 40 goal seasons at their peak. Tarasenko is the sniper we've been waiting for since Hull left and Schwartz may be the most complete scorer on the roster since Demitra.

    Besides, the Blackhawks, Kings, Bruins and Avalanche all excelled last year without a single truly elite scorer among them. The closest would be maybe Patrick Sharp. Depth and rolling multiple scoring lines is how you win these days. The era of winning via an elite first line, solid second line, an energy 3rd line and crap 4th line is done. Your top 3 lines all need to be able to contribute on the scoresheet and even the 4th line needs to be able to skate and play plus defense rather than just soak up minutes like in the past.

    They need to start playing with a little urgency; can't let the Blackhawks run and hide. But we're only 5 games in and getting 3 points in the 3 games on that damn west coast road trip isn't terrible. That trip isn't as bad as the Western Canada trip that seems to blow us up most years, but it's always tough sledding for STL.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by barnbird View Post
    They look like last years version with the same old Hitchcock running the show.
    Last year's version was on track for the Presidents cup and looking like the best team in hockey until we lost an entire scoring line and watched our lack of depth undermine us.

    This year we've lost precisely zero of our scoring forwards and replaced the decaying corpses of Morrow and Roy with Stastny and Lehtera. Lindstrom's replaced Jaskin and is a much more dynamic player.

    We simply ran out of bodies last season - disappointing but it happens. Armstrong spent the offseason building depth among the forwards, addressing our biggest weakness. I'll gladly take last year's version and have no problem with the same old Stanley Cup/Jack Adams winner running the show. It's way too easy to forget just how big a difference he made when he took over for Davis Payne. There are maybe 10-15 qualified NHL coaches in the league right now and we definitely have one of them. It's easy to spot the teams that don't.
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    He's not Scotty Bowman, but he's also not John Brophy. (Damn, I sound old)

    The lack of powerplay versatility in the playoffs last year does cast some doubts, but it's worth another year.
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    There were 3 guys in the league last year who scored 40 goals, Oz. I don't think we have two of this year's. I think Tank is a goalmaker. I'm worried the rest of the team is too junk-goal oriented. It's been our MO. Fire lots of shots, pound in rebounds. Somehow, that seems to stop working in the playoffs. We dominate play for 2/3's of the game, cannot manage to get a rebound past a hot goalie, then give up a freak odd-man rush the other way for a goal. It's infuriating.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    There were 3 guys in the league last year who scored 40 goals, Oz. I don't think we have two of this year's. I think Tank is a goalmaker. I'm worried the rest of the team is too junk-goal oriented. It's been our MO. Fire lots of shots, pound in rebounds. Somehow, that seems to stop working in the playoffs. We dominate play for 2/3's of the game, cannot manage to get a rebound past a hot goalie, then give up a freak odd-man rush the other way for a goal. It's infuriating.
    "At their peak"

    I don't think Tarasenko or Schwartz are at their peak. Nor do I think that means they'll routinely hit 40. But I think both guys have 40 goal seasons in them and will hit that mark at some point in their careers.

    I don't think it's fair to say that the team wants to score junk goals. Our #1 center has been Backes - who is by no means a playmaker. Prior to last season, Tarasenko and Schwartz weren't really factors either.

    Now those 2 have become legitimate playmakers and Stastny is the closest to a legit 1st line center we've had since we let Turgeon walk. Lehtera is also a nifty little passer. It's not entirely fair to hold the sins of prior seasons against this roster; 4 of the top 6 forwards are relatively new to the mix and more skilled offensive players than the guys they replaced.

    We scored junk goals in the past because it's all the team had. Who was going to go tic tac toe to create a scoring chance? Who was going to feather a saucer pass through to find a guy in the slot? The talent wasn't there. Now it is. The depth is there as well.

    If the season plays out and we're still only capable of banging in scraps (which, for the record, is how most teams score their goals and not just STL), then looking at the coach is probably a good idea. But the talent is absolutely there to be far more dynamic than that.
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    Oz - I hope you're right. I believe you're right. But, I think you'll understand if part of me wants to see it first.

    Andy Mac was a playmaker at one time, capable of that saucer pass. Perron was a goalmaker. At Stewie's peak, he could make things happen too.

    We've had skill guys in the mix before. I hope these skill guys are better and more consistent.

    I don't want players who will someday score 40 goals, maybe, at different times. I want an elite scorer who seems to summon something special to score at will. I know there's no such thing as scoring at will. But that's what it seems like when we're packing our bags early for yet another offseason of questions and regrets. Like we resorted to banging home junk goals that never happened, and the other team had a guy who knocked down a wayward pass, made a nifty move and sniped one past the goalie before we could blink.

    We'll outshoot a team 40 to 18 and lose. In-fury-ating.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    Oz - I hope you're right. I believe you're right. But, I think you'll understand if part of me wants to see it first.

    Andy Mac was a playmaker at one time, capable of that saucer pass. Perron was a goalmaker. At Stewie's peak, he could make things happen too.

    We've had skill guys in the mix before. I hope these skill guys are better and more consistent.

    I don't want players who will someday score 40 goals, maybe, at different times. I want an elite scorer who seems to summon something special to score at will. I know there's no such thing as scoring at will. But that's what it seems like when we're packing our bags early for yet another offseason of questions and regrets. Like we resorted to banging home junk goals that never happened, and the other team had a guy who knocked down a wayward pass, made a nifty move and sniped one past the goalie before we could blink.

    We'll outshoot a team 40 to 18 and lose. In-fury-ating.
    Mac and Perron both had their brains turned to scrambled eggs. Mac openly acknowledged that he was worried about getting hit and Perron, though he wasn't as effective as he could be in a wide open system, was our most effective player in his final post-season here.

    As for Stewie - nope; he's a garbage goal scorer. He's a cut-rate Keith Tkachuk who would float anytime he wasn't scoring goals. Any argument that is trying to prop up that heartless waste of a roster spot simply does a disservice to any other points you may have been making. In short - !@#$ Chris Stewart.

    And you can want the elite scorer if you want, but that guy usually takes up more of your cap than he's worth and in recent history hasn't led to championships. The Pens have 2 and yet the Crosby/Malkin dynasty that was supposed to form has largely fallen flat every since Pittsburgh had to start paying those 2. The Caps with Ovechkin are chronic underachievers. Despite having Stamkos, Marty St. Louis and credible to elite goaltending for the last several seasons, the Lightening haven't been contenders.

    I'll take lineup depth every single time over an elite scorer. Sure, the lineup needs a handful of finishers but the Blues absolutely have that in Schwartz, Tarasenko and Steen.
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    Tonight is a Siberian hat trick paired with the Blackhawks getting struck by Lightning. The Blues Lehtering the Sabres a new one.

    It does make life a little sweeter.
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    BLUCKING FACKHAWKS!!!!!

    Decided to pull a Ben Franklin and found the key to victory on the end of a kite string.
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    After that filthy spear to Tarasenko, shoving 3 goals down their throat during the 5 min penalty (actually in under 2 min, IIRC) was nothing short of embarrassing. F 'em.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    After that filthy spear to Tarasenko, shoving 3 goals down their throat during the 5 min penalty (actually in under 2 min, IIRC) was nothing short of embarrassing. F 'em.

    I really sabred the moment! It surely spearheaded the Blues team hat trick in about 2 minutes.
    Last edited by Indiana Dave; 11-12-2014 at 10:29 AM.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    After that filthy spear to Tarasenko, shoving 3 goals down their throat during the 5 min penalty (actually in under 2 min, IIRC) was nothing short of embarrassing. F 'em.
    That was just outstanding.

    The Sabres were just wholly outclassed so they resorted to outright goonery and the Blues handed them their ass for it. They pulled that crap only because they knew Reaves wasn't out there to punish them for it (and Ott is a worthless husk that doesn't belong on an NHL roster...what a pussy).

    I believe each West team plays each East team twice in a home/home so we should get another shot at them. I'm hoping Reaves finds Weber and gets some payback for that stunt he pulled with Steen. I consider the Tarasenko spear settled after the Blues potted 3 during the ensuing major.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    I consider the Tarasenko spear settled after the Blues potted 3 during the ensuing major.
    My buddy texted me this exact quote when the spear happened: "Either have to score three goals here or somebody needs to be punched."

    Pretty much nailed it. And yes, Buffalo was looking decent and then Lehtera netted 3 in a relatively short time and they turned into a team of Hansen brothers. And the Blues did exactly what they should have; keep putting pucks in the net and embarrass them.

    The February 5th matchup should be interesting.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    "At their peak"

    I don't think Tarasenko or Schwartz are at their peak. Nor do I think that means they'll routinely hit 40. But I think both guys have 40 goal seasons in them and will hit that mark at some point in their careers.
    Best scoring tandem since Hull and Shanahan. What's more, we've got a much better team around these two than we ever did around H & S. I just hope this year it finally translates into some post-season success. D.GOOCH
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by GOOCH View Post
    Best scoring tandem since Hull and Shanahan.
    And Lehtera makes it all work. Last night Tank drew all the attention and the young Finn scored a hat trick. That line has something like 65% of all scoring so far this season. That's amazing but also a point of vulnerability - the opposition is gunning for them. The other guys need to get into the act.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    And Lehtera makes it all work. Last night Tank drew all the attention and the young Finn scored a hat trick. That line has something like 65% of all scoring so far this season. That's amazing but also a point of vulnerability - the opposition is gunning for them. The other guys need to get into the act.
    I expect Oshie, Steen, and Backes to get their share before it is all said and done. D.GOOCH
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by GOOCH View Post
    I expect Oshie, Steen, and Backes to get their share before it is all said and done. D.GOOCH
    I'm thinking it was about April of last season that Steen got into his head that he's an agitator. His offensive game has fallen to shit ever since.

    He started playing an aggressive, chippy brand of hockey that was fun to watch...but not really what we're paying him for. He started taking silly 'reaction' penalties and playing a bit out of control. Suddenly the guy with a shot that could get him 25 goals/season was out there trying to play like Tyson Nash. I respect the will and desire to compete, but that's what you pay Chris Porter $700K/season for; it's not what you pay Steen $6 million/season for. Steen will start scoring goals again when he gets back to his more skilled game.

    It reminds me of David Perron his last season here. He was suddenly flying around and being a pest, but he lost his goal scoring touch completely. Blues fans love themselves a lunch pail player so they were excited to see him get away from being the floater in white skates that shied away from the corners. Unfortunately we needed the skilled guy then; another mucker just didn't help. When he went to Edmonton, his scoring numbers rebounded to his 11/12 form as he re-focused his energy on finding/utilizing the skill in his game. The Blues need to see if they can do the same with Steen.
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    Oshie activated and will play tonight.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    Oshie activated and will play tonight.
    Cool. Hope he doesn't take any bad hits to the head.

    Isn't it weird that the Preds are in town for the second time in less than a week?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    Oshie activated and will play tonight.
    Ever since the Perron incident, I've always regarded concussions as one of those things where you get the guy medically cleared...then you sit him for another week just to be sure.

    Concussions have obviously altered the landscape of football, but when you look at what they've done to guys like Lindros, Pronger, McDonald, Perron and even recently Jeff Skinner - they're every bit as scary in hockey if not moreso.

    I watched Backes kinda stagger around the ice for 3 games after his concussion and it was unsettling and almost scary. The guy clearly wasn't himself. Fortunately he managed to not take any tough hits over that period and he played his form back. Bringing Oshie back a mere week after he wasn't even fit enough to take part in team skates bothers me a fair amount. I'd keep him out until the Canadiens game or maybe even until we play the Sens on 11/22.
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    Wouldn't you know he scores one in a one-goal victory.
    Last edited by STJOMO; 11-14-2014 at 08:50 AM.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by STJOMO View Post
    Wouldn't you know he scores one in a one-goal victory.
    And he looked good too. Played a bunch and made a difference. A few rusty moments here and there but I'm glad he's back.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Moon Man 18 View Post
    And he looked good too. Played a bunch and made a difference. A few rusty moments here and there but I'm glad he's back.
    He did - looked great. That was easily the most disruptive game he's played all season. I wonder if playing on a line with Stastny and Backes as opposed to Berglund and Lindstrom had something to do with it.

    In either event, my concern wasn't rust - it was re-injury. I don't want the kid locking himself in dark rooms for the next several months because we desperately needed that 18 minutes of ice time.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by Oz-iz-God View Post
    I don't want the kid locking himself in dark rooms for the next several months because we desperately needed that 18 minutes of ice time.
    Exactly. His play last night reminded me again why I like him so much. He did score, but even when he doesn't he's ALWAYS in the middle of the play attempting to make things happen, both offensively and defensively. He's just a solid all-around player.

    He definitely wasn't afraid of getting in tight spaces or throwing his weight around so that makes me feel better about where he's at, physically.
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    "Mr. Hockey" Gordie Howe not doing well.

    http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....egend_gor.html
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    Bad night at ScottTrade. Blues cough up a 2 goal lead after Elliott leaves with an injury, and then lose in a shootout. This will be Allen's first big test at the NHL level. Who's the backup if Elliott's out for a few games?
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Who's the backup if Elliott's out for a few games?
    Looks like Martin Brodeur and/or Jordan Binnington

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...222748461.html
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    Oy. Get well soon, Brian.
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    Brodeur has been signed to a contract and will accompany the team on the upcoming road trip to Chicago, Nashville and NYI. Let's hope he's just along to mentor the young'uns.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Brodeur has been signed to a contract and will accompany the team on the upcoming road trip to Chicago, Nashville and NYI. Let's hope he's just along to mentor the young'uns.
    I read he was looking pretty dang sharp in practice. I realize that practice isn't a game, but we're talking about a HOF netminder, here.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by paulie walnuts View Post
    Brodeur has been signed to a contract and will accompany the team on the upcoming road trip to Chicago, Nashville and NYI. Let's hope he's just along to mentor the young'uns.
    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum to view images.

    And you have to believe that this means Elliott will be out longer than expected. If he's being signed to an NHL contract, it's not just for a week.
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    If brodie proves a suitable backup, he's a good trade candidate when Elliott does come back. Someone will always be looking for a goalie.
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by two-hole View Post
    If brodie proves a suitable backup, he's a good trade candidate when Elliott does come back. Someone will always be looking for a goalie.
    Yes and no.

    History says that the trade value for goalies is actually really lousy...or at the very least surprisingly static. A decent goalie prospect will get you a 2nd rounder (Bishop) whereas a solid NHL goalie will likely yield you a third line forward or that same 2nd rounder (if you're lucky).

    I can't figure out goalie trade value at all, to be honest. I think the best trend I can find is that teams will pay for young goalies or guys with post-season pedigrees that they think can be an everyday starter down the stretch. So someone like Semyon Varlamov nets a 1st rounder because the 'lanche think he can be a long-term fixture in goal. Miller yields a similar return because the Blues think he gets them over the top. When the Blues traded for just a decent veteran goalie in Chris Mason, they gave up about nothing to get him.

    If anyone wanted Brodeur, they could've had him. He's been looking for work all year and just signed for the pro-rated veterans minimum. I'd be shocked if there was a market for him. The league saw the tape on him last year; he's gassed. He's a competent backup and 'coach on the ice' but that's not going to get you anything in return.
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  50. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Rock Hill
    Posts
    81,112
    He's done. I think you can play him against the bad teams and get away with it.
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